John Cato

In our area, 80, 90 % of the farmers have switched to no-till in the last 10, 15 years. With our continuous droughts, if you're not conserving that moisture, you're not gonna make it.

The ones that aren't… I don't understand why they haven't changed. It looks pretty when you plow it, but that's about it.

 

Dusty Weis

Welcome to the FARMSMART Podcast, presented by Nutrien Ag Solutions, where every month we are talking to sustainable agriculture experts from throughout the industry.

As the leading source of insight for growers on evolving their sustainability practices while staying grounded in agronomic proof, FARMSMART is where sustainability meets opportunity.

We don't just talk change. We are out in the field helping you identify the products, practices, and technologies that bring the future to your fields faster. I'm Dusty Weis.

 

Sally Flis

And I'm Dr. Sally Flis, Director of Sustainable Ag Programs. And today we're joined by John and Amilia Cato, two of Nutrien Ag Solutions’ Sustainable Success Champions for 2025. Thank you for joining us, guys.

 

Amilia Cato

Thank you for having us.

 

Dusty Weis

No seriously, thank you, because we caught you in the middle of harvest. And so you’re speaking with us from the cab of your truck, out in the field in Texas, with combines going past in the background. Gotta say, in 66 episodes, this is a first for us.

But Sally, it was really important to us to speak with John and Amilia because the Sustainable Success Champions program is a new thing for Nutrien Ag Solutions, yeah?

 

Sally Flis

Our Sustainable Success Champions program was launched to recognize and reward folks who are on the cutting edge of improving their sustainability footprint. We've been running the program for about four years now, and we're really excited to talk to you guys a little bit more about what you're doing on your farm. But the first question is, we know you guys aren't adopting these practices to win awards, but what does it mean to you to have someone recognize the hard work that you've been putting in in the field?

 

Amilia Cato

It was pretty exciting that we got a phone call and said, “Hey, we want y'all to come and accept an award.” That was pretty exciting to know that our little farming operation was being recognized because sometimes you're just kind of out here. You don't even really know if you're making a difference.

 

Sally Flis

Could you tell us a little more about your farming operation, what crops you're growing, the acres you guys are covering, and how long your family farm has been there?

 

Amilia Cato

So John's family farm has been in the Hardeman County, Wilbarger County area since about the 1900s. So this is definitely a generational family farm.

John and I've been married close to 22 years. So we began farming on our own at that time. The Cato family has ran cattle. We have farmed wheat. We do hay grazer from time to time when the weather allows it.

John and I have 2,000 acres that we farm and John manages his family's farm, which is around 10,000 acres.

 

Dusty Weis

Yeah an operation of that size will keep you busy no doubt about it, and being as you’re in the middle of harvest and you’re located kind of on the border of Texas and South Oklahoma, what kind of challenges are you guys facing throughout your growing season?

 

Amilia Cato

Well, in the last five years, our area has experienced drought conditions, crops not growing. And then a couple of months ago, we got probably a year's worth of rain in about eight days. And we recorded anywhere from 12 to 14 inches of rain.

But in our area, I think it's just how we sit on the Red River. A lot of times you'll see the storms building all around us and it'll split.

That's the toughest part for us. I mean, farming is a risk. We have definitely hurt due to those drought conditions for sure.

 

Dusty Weis

Yeah I mean sometimes it feels like you just can’t win, right? I mean drought is frustrating but 12 inches of rain all at once? That’s insane. We went through something just like that here in Southeast Wisconsin just a few weeks back and the impact it had on our growers and even our communities it was unprecedented and frankly tragic in a lot of cases.

Just an incredible amount of water to get all at once, what kind of impact did that have on your farming operation?

 

Amilia Cato

Well, we just for instance, John and I had 400 acres of wheat that we had planted for this growing season and that wheat didn't come up. So we turned around and did a bumper crop with hay grazer. And I think we had that hay grazer in the ground for maybe two weeks and we got that 12 inches of rain and it washed it completely out.

That was technically 400 acres that we lost to drought and flood. It's not a laughing matter, but it's just like, what do you do? You win some, you lose some. Should we have just taken all that money that we put into those two crops to Vegas at that point?

You know, farming's a risk. We all know that, but that's some of the things that we have dealt with.

 

John Cato

It's better to laugh than cry.

 

Dusty Weis

Oh God, I can’t imagine.

 

Sally Flis

So the other part of our Sustainable Success Champions program is to recognize the crop consultant that works with you guys in the field to implement the different sustainability practices. And so your crop consultant is Bobby Don Riggins out of the Altus, Oklahoma branch. And he told us that you have been implementing some of these sustainability practices for more than 15 years. So that puts you well ahead of the curve in sustainability practices.

What drove you to be interested in investing the time, money, and effort in the sustainability practices that you're using? And what are some of the sustainability practices that you've had the most success with at your farms?

 

John Cato

We've been using BLACKMAX WSG and Carb-N especially in our sandier soils where we're having a problem with leaching, staying in the root structure. We're getting more use out of that and better returns. That's our main deal. Between that and some soil samples and trying to put money in places that can do the most benefit for us. Just trying to cut costs wherever you can because our input costs are going so high here lately. If you're not trying to be efficient, you're going to be out.

 

Sally Flis

What does that relationship look like with Bobby Don and how often are you guys talking to each other? And like today, when you guys are in the middle of harvest, how are you communicating with him? How is he involved in making sure you're set for the next cropping season and evaluating performance on the current cropping season that you're working in?

 

John Cato

He's usually always a phone call away for sure. He's real good about that. Matter of fact, we talked today.

When we are in the planting season and the spraying season and top dressing for sure, we are almost on the phone daily basis. Back to the efficiency side is you're making sure not only on our farm, but doing my family's farm with that many acres, you have to plan out when you're going to get fertilizer and how it's going to be used and keeping those things on hand. So you're not sitting there with a crew just waiting for the fertilizer show up or whatever to show up.

Having all that stuff in a timely manner is key. You don't want to store too much, so you can't have it too early, you can't have it too late. The biggest benefit having Bobby on my side is him making sure that stuff hits my area at the right time.

 

Sally Flis

John, I think your comments there on the timing and having fertilizer or product available to make sure you're getting it out when it's the right conditions and when you guys are in need of it is a piece of the sustainability picture that we often forget about that if we really want to get the right nutrients out there at the right time and do the right practices, there's more beyond just making that management decision of what we're going to do that makes that happen.

You've got to have that coordination with your local retailer or with your crop consultant to make sure you can really execute on the things that you've put into a plan with them before the season starts.

 

John Cato

You're absolutely correct.

 

Dusty Weis

Well, I'll tell you what, we really want to dig in and find out a little bit more about what your plan is, John and Amilia, and how you execute it year in and year out here. And so we want to dig into the specifics of what you have going on in your farm in North Texas. And we are going to do that coming up in a moment here on the FARMSMART Podcast.

 

Dusty Weis

This is the FARMSMART Podcast presented by Nutrien Ag Solutions. I'm Dusty Weis along with Sally Flis. And we're talking today with John and Amilia Cato, two of Nutrien Ag Solutions’ Sustainable Success Champions from Quanah, Texas.

So before the break, we were chatting about some of the practices you guys have implemented on your farm. And it sounds like no-till, nutrient stewardship, soil testing, all those play an important role in reshaping your farming operation and make sure you got the right nutrients paired with the right products going down on your fields over the last 15 years.

How did you go about rolling out those practices when you decided to make them part of your management?

 

John Cato

Changing the equipment was a big issue, you know. Going to the John Deere air seeder… and in case you can tell in the background, I have a stripper-header on the combine. And then getting away from the disc and going straight to the sprayer has been the key. You know, when I came back to the farm for the family, we switched right then 20 some odd years ago. And so for sure the last 15 been strictly no-till and even kind of before that.

But the equipment was the biggest issue, getting that all changed over. And once you go into no-till, I feel like it's so much easier than the old system of just discing everything and sweeping.

 

Dusty Weis

So we’ve talked to a lot of growers over the years who have worked through that transition. And a lot of folks during that transition phase spend a little bit of time maybe scratching their wondering, “Hey, did I make the right decision switching?” Did you have any of that lag when you switched from tillage to no-till and experienced maybe an, “Uh-oh, what did I do?” moment?

 

John Cato

Yes, there's no doubt there's years when you've got a neighbor over next to you who is doing tillage and their yield looks better than yours.

But on the average, ours is typically better than our neighbors, especially with the droughts. We have such little rainfall and timely rainfall that if you're not conserving every bit of moisture, you're losing.

And in a couple of years, you know, the people who are doing tillage will be successful, but with no-till and conserving every bit of moisture as we can, we're having way more success.

 

Dusty Weis

For sure, we hear that all the time. Store it in the ground so it's there for that crop when it needs it.

So over that 20 odd years since you transitioned to no-till practices on the farm, have you evolved what you’re doing at all or was it a switch and kind of coast?

 

John Cato

You know, as anything, everything's always evolving. We're probably not as evolving as much as we should be, but it's constantly changing. I wanted to tillage my ground once every 10 years.

We're finding that we're having some issues with the ground getting too rough, you know, just constantly tracking over it. I just want to smooth it up. And that's probably our next phase is trying to get into where we just till it once every 10 years, smooth the ground back up. So we have a good flat surface to start off with.

So I think strictly no-till is never the answer and I don't think strictly tillage is it. But there's got to be some kind of give and take where you can do a little bit of both.

 

Sally Flis

So Amilia, a big part of our programs is tracking the data that you guys are collecting on your farm so that we can look at the sustainability metrics associated with that. You guys have worked closely with one of our previous podcast guests, Ky Houchin, on getting that data into our Agrible platform to be able to track those sustainability metrics.

What are some of the tools you guys are using on farm to collect fertilizer application, pesticide applications, yield, planting, that kind of stuff… that you're able to then work with our team and individuals like Ky on the ground to get entered into the Agrible platform?

 

Amilia Cato

We just have our yield monitors that are in the combines really is how we collect that data.

 

John Cato

Just being in contact with them and let them know what is working and what is not working, keeping our records good where we can keep accurate data of like which ones are doing the best.

 

Sally Flis

From that data that you're collecting, what insights have you found? And it sounds like you're using it to sort of have that, at least at a field level, kind of vary your management based on your production so that you can have some new improvements in efficiency or address potential problems.

What are some of the insights from that data that you guys have collected on the farm over time?

 

John Cato

Like we mentioned before, fertilizer and application at the right times, it tends to always be the issue. And when you do that right, you usually have the yields behind it.

 

Amilia Cato

It’s obviously a lot of trial and error sometimes. The soil testing will also help us where if we put fertilizer in the ground, where is that benefiting us the most so that we're not just putting it somewhere that it's not being used.

 

Dusty Weis

Yeah, that's fantastic insight. You know, I had the job of reading over your nomination form for this honor, and something that someone had written really stuck out to me. It said, “the less a piece of machinery has to go across an acre, the more profitable that acre becomes.” Do you guys know who wrote that?

 

Amilia Cato

We don't know. We don't know who wrote that.

 

John Cato

It might've been something I said to Bobby one time or not.

I don't know who wrote it, but it's the truth.

It is a truth that, you know, your equipment's going to wear out and you got to make it last. And I don't know if you can tell by in the background. I mean, my combines are 12 years old. My tractors are 20 years old. My trucks are 20 years old.

It's so expensive right now. If we can keep this stuff lasting and the only way to keep it lasting is having to go across the acres less times.

 

Dusty Weis

Have you ever stopped to think about just how radical a statement that would have been to a farmer like 20 years ago even?

 

John Cato

Yeah, I mean, like she was telling earlier that, you know, I take care of my family's farm and I spent a lot of time with my granddad growing up.

And when I say my family's farm, it's his legacy leftover.

You talk about no-till earlier, like when we went to no-till, he did not like that.

He's like, “I like it plowed. I want it plowed.”

I'm like, this will be better granddad, you know, and the equipment too, which was able to get into equipment then, but you know, we're making this equipment last several years later. It's all old, but it's all good equipment in good condition.

 

Sally Flis

John, you mentioned earlier that you've noticed that neighbors who are doing more tillage maybe sometimes looked like their crop is coming off a little bit better. What have the conversations been with some of the neighbors as you've implemented practices like no-till and some of this advanced nutrient management? Are they interested? Are they curious? Or they just think you're crazy?

 

John Cato

Well, in our area, 80, 90 % of the farmers have switched to no-till in the last 10, 15 years.

And so most of my neighbors are doing it the same way we are. We were pretty much the first in the area.

It's the 10 % leftover that are stuck in the, “I'm going to plow. I've always been plowing.”

You know, back to what I said earlier, with our continuous droughts, if you're not conserving that moisture, you're not going to make it. The ones that aren't, I don't understand why they haven't changed.

It looks pretty when you plow it. That's about it.

 

Dusty Weis

Ain’t that the truth. So you know, as part of the recognition for being one of our Sustainable Success Champions, you guys were invited to come up to Commodity Classic this year and meet all the winners from across North America. How was that experience for you to come up to Commodity?

 

Amilia Cato

It was definitely a red carpet experience. It really was. To be honest, when we got out there, we honestly didn't know who technically won the award. Was it me or was it John? Because they kept talking to me and we are a partnership in this, but over the last year and a half, we have changed everything to me. I'm the lead farmer on our operation now.

John got to be it for 20 years. Now it's my turn. And so we honestly just weren't quite sure who the award was for because all the emails kept coming to me.

And that's probably because Bobby Don knew that John doesn't check his emails. And so John said, just send it to Amilia. So we really had no idea what to expect, but arriving at the airport, there's a sign with my name on it. I mean, a nice little luxury car to the hotel.

 

It was definitely a red carpet experience, getting to go to some concerts, going through the Commodity Classic, some luncheons, dinners.

We definitely felt very appreciated because a lot of times with this farming job, you don't get recognized for the jobs you do. I have to commend my husband on his ability. There are a lot of young farmers that are in our area that are working in our area.

And John's putting the ladder down for them, not pulling it away from them. He is helping them. He is talking with them.

Getting that recognition out there for my husband in something that he loves, that he is carrying on with a family tradition has just been a really great thing.

John also won Farmer-of-the Year in Hardeman County through our chamber of commerce. So he got some recognition this year and it just goes to show he does work hard in this field, literally.

 

Dusty Weis

Oh wow that’s awesome, congratulations, fantastic honor as well. So it sounds like you interact with a lot of the farmers in your local area. But when you're at an event like Commodity, you also had the opportunity to interact with a bunch of different farmers from all across North America… different geographies, different soil types. Was there anything that you took away from that experience with those other growers?

 

John Cato

Well, you know, I'm not the most sociable guy.

But what I did learn with the ones I talked to is, you know, everybody's having the same struggles. The input costs are struggling. The land prices are getting outrageous, you know, and our yields are sometimes good, sometimes bad, but our prices are not enough to cover either one of those expenses, typically.

How do you manage all that? That's been consistently the problem throughout United States and to some of Canada people I talked to.

It's consistent, you know, our land prices are going up and our input costs are going up. Be it machinery, fertilizer, whatever, it's all going up and it doesn't seem like our commodities are going up with it too much. There's going to have to be a give and take somewhere and I don't know where that's going to be. And that's the reason we're still running old equipment. The equipment costs are just too high. We don't want to make that other payment.

 

Dusty Weis

Certainly, John and Amilia, growers face added pressure right now from those prices, as you mentioned, and when we're able to make that back in the margins by adopting these sustainability practices, it's a great benefit for everybody in the industry. Certainly hope that's something that you're experiencing right now.

But John and Amilia Cato from Quanah, Texas, we wanted to thank you again so much for joining us from the field. You we talk a lot on this podcast about being out in the field with our growers. This time we're actually out in the field with you and so it has been a fun experience for us as well. But thank you for joining us on this episode of the FARMSMART Podcast.

 

Dusty Weis

And Sally a great conversation with John and Amelia there, we certainly learned a lot and enjoyed speaking with them. But as we wind this episode down here we did want to just acknowledge one thing and that is that our friend and your former colleague Ryan Adams who was the co host of this podcast has recently departed Nutrien Ag Solutions, and we’re sorry to see him go.

 

Sally Flis

Yeah Dusty, it’s sad to see him go. It was nice to have a co host back on the podcast. I know we’ve been in and out with co hosts since we started almost 70 episodes ago. But we’ll keep moving forward and we wish the best to Ryan and his new endeavors and I’m sure our listeners and us both as co hosts will probably see him somewhere in the ag industry in the future.

 

Dusty Weis

And we’ll certainly look forward to that, but that is going to conclude this episode of the FARMSMART Podcast. New episodes arrive every month, so make sure you subscribe to the FARMSMART Podcast in your favorite app and visit nutrienagsolutions.com/farmsmart to learn more.

The FARMSMART Podcast is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions with editing by Emily Kaysinger and Matt Covarrubias.

And the FARMSMART Podcast is produced by Podcamp Media, branded podcast production for businesses, podcampmedia.com.

I'm Dusty Weis. For Nutrien Ag Solutions and Sally Flis, thanks for listening.