Posted Sept. 22, 2021 | By Nutrien Ag Solutions

Cover Crop Return on Investment, with Patrick Reed from La Crosse Seed

 

While the topic of carbon sequestration is hot in the streets, recent Farm Journal research indicates that only 3.32% or growers surveyed are currently enrolled in a non-governmental carbon market. But while enrollment stays lean, interest does continue to rise, with 55% of growers surveyed confirming they plan to participate over the next 3 years.

In this episode of The Future. Faster, Tom and Sally discuss the reoccurring, but yet unanswered questions that are creating hesitancy among growers. How will the industry support the tedious data collection lift? Will the program payment cover the costs of the practice change, creating a positive ROI? Can growers participate if they conducted a practice before enrolling in a carbon program? And more...

Plus, Patrick Reed, Vice President of Sales at La Crosse Seed joins us to to share how to effectively plan for and manage cover crops, the appropriate way to evaluate ROI on cover crops and some overarching pros and cons that Nutrien Ag Solutions crop consultants and grower customers should be aware of.

Visit futurefaster.com to learn more. We'll have new episodes every other week, so make sure to subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Episode Transcript

Patrick Reed:

There's a long list of benefits that cover crops do provide, ultimately in many cases that could be an enhancement over time to your corn and soybean yields. But those things initially need to be considered by the grower as key aspects of what they want to accomplish on their farm.

Dusty Weis:

The future isn't just written by the past, it's written by the right now and right now Nutrien Ag Solutions is focused on what's next. Welcome to the Future. Faster. A sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with our very own Tom Daniel, Director of Retail Sustainable Ag and Dr. Sally Flis, Senior Manager Sustainability Field. This is your opportunity to learn about the next horizon in sustainable agriculture for growers, for partners, for the planet. For us, it's not about changing what's always worked, it's about continuing to do the little things that make a big impact. On this week's episode, Patrick Reed, Vice President of Sales at La Crosse Seed joins us to share how to effectively plan for and manage cover crops. The appropriate way to evaluate ROI on cover crops and some of the overarching pros and cons that Nutrien Ag Solutions crop consultants and grow customers should be aware of.

Dusty Weis:

But if you haven't yet make sure you're subscribed to this podcast in your favorite app. Also, make sure you follow Nutrien Ag Solutions on Facebook and Instagram. I'm Dusty Weis, and it's time once again, to introduce Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And Tom and Sally in the field of sustainability, there's always a lot of talk about where we want to be and where we are right now. And so much of the time it feels like that second part gets lost in the broader discussion. But I understand that our friends at the Farm Journal are out with some interesting research in the area of carbon sequestration and growers attitudes about it today.

Tom Daniel:

You're right, Dusty. In fact, this article just came out the month of August and it was some survey work that the Farm Journal did with potential growers or growers that they work with. And they were asking basically the farmers opinions around carbon programs and what was going on and I thought there were some really interesting facts that came out of that survey. And it shows why Nutrien today has been so engaged in the carbon discussions, because this does appear to be something of interest to most of the growers that Nutrien is concerned about today. So one of the interesting facts that came at is really a very small group of growers are actually engaged in some type of carbon program today. In fact, the survey said only a little over 3% of growers today are actually enrolled in a carbon program, but they asked the survey group if they had a plan to join a carbon market in the next three years and over 55% said that they were.

Tom Daniel:

So that shows the unbelievable amount of interest that's in the marketplace today. And Sally, we hear that from our growers, what feedback are you hearing from our growers that are participating in Nutrien's end-to-end carbon pilot for 2021?

Sally Flis:

Yeah. Tom in the end-to-end pilot, I think between the two of us, we probably talked to about 60 different growers to get to the signups that we've got. And we had about the same thing, I think there were two or three growers that had already signed up for other programs. We've got a couple of growers that are splitting their acres across different programs because they're in the same position we're in trying to learn what these different programs are, how they operate, what's the best fit for them based on the cropping system that they have. And then we had, of those 60 growers, we had 27 that signed up to participate in our end-to-end pilot. So we're at about the same responses that Farm Journal is seeing in their survey work with a low percentage already participating and about 55% or half of our growers being willing to sign up, to get some experience in the carbon market.

Sally Flis:

Additionally, as we've talked about in previous episodes, that return on investment is key to the farmer. And in that Farm Journal survey, they said that the majority of growers were looking for about a $20,000 whole acre return that would motivate them to sign up for a carbon market. So Tom, how long does it take to see that return on investment and what are all the different areas that that return is coming from? Because it's not always just a $20,000 check back to the grower every year.

Tom Daniel:

You're right, Sally, when we talk about return on investment, the growers are looking at well, what am I going to be asked to do as far as farmer practice change? And most growers we'll talk about this later, but a lot of growers are already doing things like no tail, but when you talk about implementing cover crops, as an example, there's a lot of costs associated with that. Most growers are looking at anywhere from $20 to $30 an acre, by the time they get their cover crops planted of new costs each year. And typically, we don't see short-term benefits from cover crops. Most of the ROI that we get off of soil health and water management that happens with cover crops only occurs in year four, year five after the cover crops have been continuously used.

Tom Daniel:

Now, in those cases, by the time we get to year four, year five, we see some pretty significant ROI returns from cover crops. And a lot of your universities will say it's anywhere from two to 6%, depending on the crop and depending on the cover crop you're planning. But in those cases, you're seeing a return on investment where if we're selling $3.50, $4 corn or if we're selling $10 to $12 soybeans, we see an immediate payback for the cost of those cover crops. So most of the time when a customer says, I'm looking for revenue, he's saying on year one, how do I offset that cost? And will the carbon revenue today generate enough of an offset? And we know that's not going to happen today because in most cases we're talking about carbon around $15 a ton. And if that value and the amount of carbon that we think we're going to sequester, we're not going to see that type of payment.

Tom Daniel:

So really growers that have been in cover crop for a while are seeing their ROI return for soil health and for water quality, but a short benefit is not going to happen through the carbon markets today. So Sally, something else that I thought came up in that article that was very interesting and said, dirty word again, that you and I've talked about a hundred times called additionality. And it comes up in almost every episode that we've talked about or had our podcasts on today. One of the key things it said in the farm general survey, it said 71% of growers that they surveyed were already using conservation tillage and 51% were actually using cover crops. So how do we give farmers credit for that continuous additions of carbon to the soil from these practices? Because today the market just don't account for that.

Sally Flis:

Yeah. And I think that's an important thing we're looking at in our end-to-end pilot is we're going to model out for some of these growers and we're going to soil sample for some of these growers that have been in longer term cover crop or no till situations. Because again, we found very similar results in the 60 or so growers we talked to with about 70% of the growers we talked to have been doing cover crops for the last two years and 68% have been doing no till and that's growers everywhere, farming from North Carolina to Montana, that's not just looking at some of these smaller corn, soy based systems. So these practices are pretty widely adopted across the countryside, but we know we're still having soil health and soil carbon gains by having them implemented on the landscape.

Sally Flis:

So we're going to look at some of that modeling and some soil sampling with our partners in these growers, in our nutrient end-to-end pilot to figure out what does that look like? How much can we really go back to these registries and lobby for growers and say, there's still carbon being sequestered. It may not be a new practice, but there's still carbon getting pulled out of the atmosphere and staying in the soil. And I would argue probably in a better permanent situation, which is that other kind of dirty word that comes up in our conversations of if this grower's already committed to five, 10 years of cover crops or no till, the chance that they're going to pull out after a year or two of the practice is much lower than growers who sign up for cover crops, try for a year or two, just can't seem to find it to be successful and stop doing it.

Sally Flis:

So we really will keep working with the registries and the data that we're collecting from all of our different projects to figure out how can we create that opportunity for growers and what is the right place to do that? And what are the measurements we need to establish those carbon numbers versus these new carbon sequestration numbers?

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. Sally, let me jump in on that real quick because you and I have had this discussion, but today it appears a lot of these carbon markets as we call them, are not being advocates for the grower. They're just basically being advocates for their own needs as far as offsets or insets or whatever we're talking about. And I truly believe without a doubt in my mind that we are truly advocates for the farmer today because we are representing their needs in front of these registry groups.

Sally Flis:

Yeah. I mean, both of our histories and being in ag retail, we're not successful as retail if the grower's not successful, anything we do has to make that grower more successful over time. And if we are sending them up in programs that aren't going to work, which is why it's great that our pilots this year are really one or two year commitment. So that with these growers, as our partners and our crop consultants, as partners with the Sustainable Ag team, we can learn what really works for all of us. Because yeah, I would agree there's a lot of announcements, there's a lot of things happening out across the marketplace that are driven by needing to have a good press release and not necessarily by what's best for the grower in these situations. Following up on that Tom, as we talk to growers and crop consultants about what are their concerns in enrolling in a carbon market, what are you hearing with the growers and crop consultants that you've been interacting with over the last few months?

Tom Daniel:

Things that growers are concerned about right now, I always thought that it was about the sharing of data, for instance, in fact, our crop consultants, when we talk to them, they're always telling us, growers are very concerned about crop data and who's giving a chance to share it and look at it. But the Farm Journal article I thought was very interesting in the fact that that wasn't one of the key components of it. It really wasn't about the sharing of the farm data, but it's the unbelievable amounts of volume of data that's being required right now to participate in these programs. So some of these programs are requiring for five years worth of look backs on history and that's tracking all the different passes that go across the field on a particular farm, the fertilizer usages, and products that were used on those acres.

Tom Daniel:

If some of them are looking at vintage carbon programs that some are available out here, they could be looking for farm data all the way back for eight years. And that lift has caused a lot of growers to really try to identify is the payment that I'm receiving for this carbon program really worth it, is this something I want to participate in? And the other part that I see that growers are concerned about right now is these contracts that they're being asked to sign up for, some of them are 10 years, and we have seen some contracts that go all the way out to 20 years today. And so the question is, am I really wanting to sign my farm operation up for something that's going to go for 10 years to 20 years?

Tom Daniel:

And I was telling you earlier, Sally, I have a farmer buddy that told me, he said, 'We only have so many cropping seasons." He didn't look at it as years, he measured everything in cropping seasons. So if I'm a farmer, do I really want to tie my farm up to 10 or 20 cropping seasons, that I no longer have complete control over some of the farming practices? If I want to remain part of this, do I have to remain compliant to these different contracts that I've signed? And look, I just think that's a big deal. And Sally, I know that you're having discussions around data right now and one of the grower was telling you when it comes to, am I getting a value that's really paying for the cost of the lift to provide this data?

Sally Flis:

I've had a few phone calls in the last few weeks from growers or crop consultants that when I told them I needed five years of history, I had one grower that just started laughing at me. He was going to need to come up with that much data in order to participate. And just said, at this point in time, we know the practices we're doing because of the tools, the farm management software and other tools that they're using in the field are producing the best environmental outcomes. They don't feel the need to prove themselves by participating in a carbon market and providing all that back data. And then I had another call with a crop consultant where he went to try and collect some of the data for our end-to-end pilot and the grower looked at all the things we were looking for and threw his hands up and was ready to back out of the program.

Sally Flis:

So there's a lot of misconception out there over ownership of data and data needs. We often hear that ownership of data, one being the primary concern, but then once we really get into it with crop consultants and growers, it's really the volume of data that scares them off. Because some of them... One of the other grower visits I had in the last month, they're like, well, I only have data back to 2016, or we were just signing a grower up for some cover crop acres last week that he's like, well, I don't know what to do about the five years of data because I just bought the property this year and it's a new practice on new property. So how do we deal with that when we're looking at this modeling and data requirements?

Sally Flis:

So we've probably mentioned before on this Tom, every day, I think we have at least one new question, if not 10 new questions about how do we make this work for growers? And that's why I personally really appreciate the approach that we're taking as a team and as Nutrien Ag Solutions to really taking our time to figure this out and not just announcing a program and a pay for practice kind of situation, when we really don't even know what we need to generate the quality and value in carbon markets that could potentially be there.

Dusty Weis:

Well, and Sally, it's really interesting to me too, that in that Farm Journal article, that Tom mentioned that we see that high interest, but low participation in these carbon programs. And what I take away from that is farmers just have a lot of concerns about the hurdles that are there. And so from our end, we need to spend some time investing in reducing those hurdles and helping people get over the finish line. But it's a great conversation. We'll put a link to that Farm Journal article in the episode description, if you want to read that further. And of course, another one of the big considerations on growers minds as it pertains to sustainability is cover crops. And coming up after the break, we are going to talk to one of the mid-west foremost experts on that topic. Patrick Reed, Vice President of Sales at La Crosse Seed, will join us. That's coming up in a moment here on the Future. Faster.

Dusty Weis:

This is the Future. Faster, a sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions. I'm Dusty Weis along with Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And we're joined now by Patrick Reed, Vice President of Sales at La Crosse Seed. Patrick, thanks for joining us.

Patrick Reed:

Thanks for having me.

Dusty Weis:

So cover crops are a part of many sustainability water quality and soil carbon sequestration programs to improve the environmental outcomes from the field, they're also crop and economic benefits of planting cover crops over time. Cover crops are a long-term practice change and certainly different climates, soils and crop rotations accommodate and adapt to them differently. So Patrick, when we consider all the different considerations that a grower and a crop consultant have to account for when implementing a cover crop, whether it's the first season or the 15th season, what areas are you focusing on as a producer of cover crop seed?

Patrick Reed:

Well, with the recent advent of cover crops, which I would call about a decade now, what we've focused on that entire time and have really ramped up efforts recently, is on the training and education, the features and benefits of cover crops, what to watch out for, what to look for, how to do it properly. And make sure that our customers and their customers understand all the parameters of cover crops and how to effectively implement them into their crop program. Another key thing to be honest with you is making sure we have good seed supply. And that's always something in play. The products that are used for cover crops are grown in the United States and Canada, and based on mother nature and weather supplies might be good one year and might be very difficult in success other years. So you have to plan ahead and make sure we have seed covered for the coming fall each year. And we want to make sure that these products are what customers demand, high quality, clean seed that's not going to cause them any additional problems down the road.

Dusty Weis:

Patrick cover crops to a lot of folks might be a new practice at this point, but they've actually been around for a really long time and you guys have been on the cutting edge of them for a really long time too. So can you give us a little more background on La Crosse Seed and your operation there?

Patrick Reed:

Sure. So La Crosse Seed is a small seed distributor, basically covering East of the Rockies. We have about 20 sales representatives in the field, working with ag retailers, companies like Nutrien. Our focus products are forage, cover crops, turf, native seed, and corresponding products that go along with those markets. And we don't sell corn and soybeans, so we're what we call a small seed distributor. And in 2019, we're a hundred years old, based here in Lacrosse, Wisconsin. We have four other facilities spread out through the Midwest. One in Madison, Wisconsin, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Ankney Iowa and Lansing, Michigan. Those outlets help feed products and seed to the local geographies that they serve. In this business, timing is everything, having seed available when they need it. So with those locations placed strategically across the Midwest, we're able to get our customers seed quickly. So that's a big focus.

Tom Daniel:

Patrick I would say this too, and I think you've told me this before, but Nutrien Ag Solution is a pretty significant customer for La Crosse Seed today.

Patrick Reed:

Yeah, no doubt. We've been working with Nutrien and the legacy companies for many years, well before my time here at La Crosse Seed and they continue to be a very strategic partner for us in this business. And as Nutrien has grown over the last number of years, we have grown with them.

Sally Flis:

Now to get into the meat and potatoes of cover crops with you, when should a grower start planning for cover crops. And is it ever really too early to start thinking about what their cover crop management plan should be?

Patrick Reed:

It's not, and in a perfect world, they start planning ahead at the same time they're planning the rest of their farming operation, which perhaps is late summer fall of the preceding year to plant the cover crop. So now would be a good time to start planning for next year's cover crop.

Sally Flis:

What are some of the things the grower needs to think about or visit with their crop consultant on as part of that cover crop management plan, as they're thinking about what you're saying is a cover crop, really for next fall, not even necessarily a cover crop for this fall?

Patrick Reed:

Well, first off, they need to understand what their crop rotation is, what fields are going to go into what next year, and that will help dictate what cover crop species would be best suited to be planted prior to that cash crop the following spring. Additionally, and a very large thing would be to understand what goals you want to accomplish from that cover crop on your farm. There's many key benefits to cover crops and goals that growers need to consider when implementing a cover crop on other farm. A few examples might be sequestering nutrients, compaction alleviation, reducing runoff of nitrates and other fertilizer products. There's a long list of benefits that cover crops do provide ultimately in many cases could be an enhancement over time to your corn and soybean yields. But those things initially need to be considered by the grower as key aspects of what they want to accomplish on their farm. And then by planning ahead, you can actually implement those cover crops into your entire farm program for the year, perhaps adjusting your variety or hybrid selection based on what cover crops you want to plant as well as rotations.

Sally Flis:

So if a grower is in the situation where they still want to plan a cover crop, this fall, obvious their pesticide applications have all been done and that kind of stuff. What are opportunities around varieties or different mixes of species that they could select if they had a pretty aggressive herbicide management program that might restrict the use of the more common sort of rye or wheat cover crops being planted?

Patrick Reed:

Well, their herbicide program definitely has an impact on what they can plant and when they can plant. In fact, the herbicide program is another example of something that needs to be pre-planned into your system if you're going to plant cover crops. One thing that's gaining in popularity is interceding cover crops into B3, V4, corn, to do that you need to have a clear direction on what herbicides you're using, so you can enable yourself to even do that. For the most part right now, depending on your geography, there's plenty of time to plant a cover crop, but to use the common things we all hear about like radishes and Crimson Clover, and some of those other products that are often used in a mix along with a small grain, it's getting a little bit late, even North of IAT right now.

Patrick Reed:

You still have a little bit of time, but we like to see 68 weeks of good growing conditions before some real hard frost. And depending on the year we could be okay right now, maybe not, but as you go South into the mid South, in the Mississippi Delta and so on, which cover crops are really gaining in popularity there, there's plenty of time to use those. But for growers further North there's multiple small grain options they could still plant now things like winter rye, winter treated kale, and so on would be good options to still plant.

Tom Daniel:

I will ask you this question, in our earlier segment of this podcast, we were discussing how growers were looking for return on investments from cover crops or really from sequester carbon. So they want to get these early payments through their carbon revenues to help pay for the cost of implementing cover crops and no till and the other things that come along with sequestered carbon. When we're thinking about return on investments and cover crops, how should we look at that as a grower today?

Patrick Reed:

There's far more momentum when talking about things like carbon programs and other payments. Cover crops have been a big thing now for many years, each year it's gained an intensity, but now I would say in the last year with the new administration, all the talk of climate change and all that has really ramped up efforts again, and now the advent of carbon programs have become more mainstream, so there's a lot for a grower to think about. The benefits I mentioned earlier all have an economic benefit to a farmer or to the environment, but when it comes to all of the carbon payments and maybe other government support that we're seeing in cover crops, there's more opportunity now than ever for a grower to offset seed costs and planting costs of cover crops due to some revenue source. Whether it be carbon programs, whether it be a government program, a watershed initiative that's making payments and so on, it's ramping up quickly.

Patrick Reed:

The key though is for a grower to understand what it is he wants to do. And I would never recommend a grower planted cover crop just so he can make money or get the seed cost offset by some program or carbon program. There's so many good benefits to cover crops beyond that.

Tom Daniel:

So most of the time, Patrick, when we think about return on investments, we think about investing a dollar and getting a dollar back. In fact, in the earlier part of the podcast, we were using a Farm Journal survey that said growers were looking for at least a $20,000 return on the whole farm from farmer practice change around sequester carbon. So when we think about cover crops, there's a lot of initial upfront cost, so you've got the cost of the seeds, you've got the cost of maybe equipment needs or special services, even going all the way to the termination of the crop in the spring, so we've got an increased costs associated with that. It's hard to pencil out the short-term benefits of using some of these practice changes like cover crop, but where do you see the longterm benefits of cover crops?

Patrick Reed:

Well, certainly there's a lot of data and evidence to show that if you enter in cover crops on your farm, it's not immediate, you're not going to see returns quickly, but there is a long-term benefit to using cover crops in terms of corn and soybean yields. And then all the associated benefits, the society viewpoint of farmers has value, society nowadays knows what cover crops are all of a sudden in the last six months, I would say two years ago, if you asked somebody in Minneapolis or Chicago or St. Louis, "Hey, what do you think of cover crops?" "What's that?" Now, they know they're hearing about it. And then all of the food companies and so on that are getting involved in sustainability. They want their food to be viewed as grown sustainably, so they're looking for opportunities here, whether it be no till cover crops, or other things to have their products represented and grown in a sustainable way that they can market to consumers.

Patrick Reed:

When you really sit down and pencil it out that first year, I'll admit it's difficult to say I'm going to even break even. That's why I always tell growers, if you're going to get into cover crops, start small, start easy, make sure you have a good experience with it, see how it works on your farm and expand from there.

Sally Flis:

Patrick, as you're out in the field interacting with growers and crop consultants at field days, or just doing farm visits to check on how these cover crops have worked out, what's the long-term benefit that growers or crop consultants get most excited about when you're talking to them about successes in the field?

Patrick Reed:

Well, certainly overall improving their soil health and preserving their soil for future generations. I think all farmers understand that, there is no doubt that continuous tillage and minimal crop rotations have an impact on the soil and they want to be stewards of their land and take care of that soil and improve it back to maybe perhaps where it once was. That's something they all recognize and find value in, at this point in time, though, it's got to make sense on their farm short term as well. So it's all about understanding what works on your farm, being cautious to a point, making sure that you're not damaging any opportunities you have for corn or soybean yields or anything like that, which are rare, but can happen.

Patrick Reed:

And overall growers want to do the right thing and they want to take care of their land and they see that this is a way to do that. And then with all the advent of carbon programs and all that, there is some excitement that once that's all figured out that that'll be a nice advantage for a grower to jump in, in a greater level and have that confidence to use more cover crops or no till or whatever the case may be.

Sally Flis:

Yeah. So next question would be around one of the dirty words we get into here around that carbon opportunity is the additionality piece. So as Tom and I are out talking to growers and you've probably heard it too, one of the things that's required by these carbon markets is it's got to be a new practice to that field within the last three years. So we often get growers saying to us, well, what if I stop doing cover crops or I stop doing my no till or go out and till up all my fields for the next three to five years, just so they can sign up for a carbon market? We try to respond to them that there's not the value there to do that because of all these longterm benefits. What's your response to growers that would consider or bring up that argument of, well, what if I stopped doing this practice in order to get into something like a carbon market?

Patrick Reed:

I think if that is a plan that they have, they're doing it all for the wrong reasons. They're already doing the right thing, they're already using a cover crop and providing the benefits that it has and by stopping that, just to get a payment out of it, that's really the wrong reason to get into it. I don't think that's a good idea. You're not really accomplishing anything if you go back and stop doing the conservation practices that you've already implemented, just to have access to a carbon program, that doesn't make any sense to me.

Tom Daniel:

So Patrick, I heard a university specialists, oh, about six months ago, made the comment, someone asked that same question in a meeting and he said, are you willing to throw four or five years or six years worth of investment that you've made on your farm, throw it away in one year? In other words, you're willing to do tillage and in one year, throw away all the advantages that you've gained for these multiple years of cover crop that you've initiated. And he said, why would any of us make a decision to do something like that? You're already seeing benefits why would you throw it away?

Patrick Reed:

Yeah, exactly. Not only are you wasting all that investment that you did for the last five years, you're going backwards and have to reinvest it again. Most of the time, the carbon credits are not necessarily going to cover all your costs when you factor in the issues that you may have on your yields of your corn and soybeans, or what have you.

Tom Daniel:

So, Patrick, we've talked about all the good things about cover crops, but there's some issues too we have to deal with. So there are things that we have to address when we do use cover crops, there are going to be some management changes. So one of the ones that we hear about a lot is pest management. How do I manage those slugs and some of those issues that cover crops bring along? Have you had some of those issues? Have you discussed some of those with growers?

Patrick Reed:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you're going to talk about the benefits of cover crops, you have to be candid and talk about the big picture. There are some challenges with cover crops, again, depending on the geography and the soil types and all that. Certainly things like slugs and other insect problems, and even sometimes disease can be more prevalent under a cover crop system. Another big one that we already touched on is herbicide program. If you're on a certain herbicide program, that's working for you that may not work for cover crops. And another big one that some of the most popular cover crops, like I touched on earlier, winter rye, need to be controlled in the spring. There's a lot of growers that have found a really good way of doing that, they'll plant green right into it and spray it later. But let's say it's a really cool wet spring and it gets away from you, that can be a challenge of getting that controlled when you're not able to plant your corn in time.

Patrick Reed:

Another factor there is that if you have something that overwinters and comes back in the spring and then you do terminate it, those nutrients are tied up in that crop until it degrades and breaks down in the soil. Now, because you've been using cover crops, you have more microbes in your soil and a higher biological activity, which should help that happen quicker. But nonetheless, those nutrients that you sequestered are tied up in that plant tissue, that's now degrading. So it's important to realize that, and depending on what your rotation is, you may want to look at things like starter on your corn, give a little boost until those nutrients are released. So often I tell growers if you're hesitant in any way, start small, maybe on that back 40 that maybe you shouldn't be planting corn on any way and see how it works there and see if it improves your yields on your corn and gain some confidence on your farm. And from there, you can expand and make it a bigger part of your operation.

Tom Daniel:

So I guess as just a final statement here, Patrick, all of this starts with the crop plain and we should be working on our 2022 discussion around cover crops now, so we need to be thinking about herbicide usage. How are we going to fight these pests or some of these issues, but not only that we are going to change our overall cultural practices on the farm, based upon implementing cover crops. So it's a farmer practice change, we just need to be aware of it and we need to start that discussion now with our crop consultants to make sure we're taking into all the considerations we need to take into when we make this practice change.

Patrick Reed:

Yeah. Absolutely. And one thing I would say help out your ag retailer, if a farmer shows up at the ag retailer on September six and says, "Hey, I need 20,000 pounds of cover crop seed," without warning, he may or may not have it for him, thus delaying and causing problems there. Give them a heads up, let them know that you're planning on doing this. It also allows you to perhaps get better pricing, to get a more optimum product. Maybe it's a certain mix that you really should be using and so on, timing is everything, thinking ahead, planning ahead, whether it be the fall before, even just a few months, I'll take that.

Dusty Weis:

Well, Patrick we've certainly covered a lot of ground, so to speak here and explore the ins and outs of cover crop and we really appreciate your taking the time to join us and talk us through these issues. Patrick Reed, from La Crosse Seed. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Future. Faster.

Patrick Reed:

Thank you.

Dusty Weis:

Ben is going to conclude this edition of the Future. Faster. The Pursuit of Sustainable Success with Nutrien Ag Solutions. New episodes arrive every other week, so make sure you subscribe on your favorite app and join us again soon. Visit futurefaster.com to learn more. The Future. Faster is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with editing by Larry Kilgore III and produced by Podcamp Media, branded podcast production for businesses podcampmedia.com. From Nutrien Ag Solutions, thanks for listening. I'm Dusty Weis.

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